www.dadeinfo.com

I'll come out and admit that I'm an Atheist. A good majority of Dade County is, or believes, they are of some religion and what I'm going to say will have biased opinions, of course, but I guess I'll rather just get it out there.

What I noticed inside the Dade County High School are picture frames. They state "One Nation, Under God". I'm sure we all know the saying was added into the Pledge in the 1950s because of the Communist scare. The problem I see now though is having them in each classroom in a public school, where students are in a wide range of different religions and beliefs.

I feel like an outsider because I'm sitting under or close to a picture frame with the religious prayer that was added to the pledge. Because to me, and a few of my friends, hey mock us. It's like they are telling us we don't belong because we aren't of that religion. While I also run into other religious refrences that teachers hang up on their walls. It's fine to have religion and all, but it shouldn't be in a public school.

And that is not the only thing. Seperation is needed in church and state, in my opinion. A country of the free to have talk of religion on our money and a religious prayer in our pledge doesn't seem to be much of a free country. While rights, such as Gay Rights, are usually based on religious and moral beliefs instead of what it should be based on, what's fair. Their are several, hundreds, of rights that a married couple has that has nothing to do with religion at times and just benefits. That shouldn't stop someone of the same gender, honestly.


And now, I await rants...

Well I will just tell you the founding fathers were very religious, they were mostly Anglicans and some like Ben Franklin were Deitist. They all believed that that Christian morals would prevail and that the Constitution would basically support those morals. The only reason for the Separation of Church and State was to prevent any particular religion from becoming THE religion of the nation -- especially the Catholic Church. See they hated the Catholic Church and it was only to gain the support of French Canada and France did they even agree to allow Catholics to have any kind of participation in government. The first time Ben Franklin and Fr John Carroll went to Canada to gain support they were refused on the grounds of how the Church was treated in the colonies -- and they could not consent at that time to change it. I was not until just shortly before the signing of the Declaration of Independence did they change their stance -- and that is why Charles Carroll "Of Carrollton" (Charles Carroll was a common name -- there were a lot of Carrolls in Maryland) did actually sign it.

The thing about marriage, well it has nothing to do with benefits, marriages about families and the begetting and raising of children. Which 'same sex partners' cant do, which is about Natural Law, which is the highest law.

On Atheism, Richard Dawkins and folks like him have it wrong, and is a really really sad person...
Try reading this, article http://memoriapress.com/articles/Tortured-Logic.html
It explains how illogical atheism is.
BTW, my favorite author was an atheist, try reading some of G. K. Chesterton's works he is known as the "Apostle of Commonsense" certainly something this country could use about now.

One, final thing I am not a "creationist" I don't believe that God created the world in 6 24 hour days, and that it is only 6,000 years old. Science has proven otherwise but it has never been able to 'prove' that God doesn't exist either. Faith and Reason go together, the Bible is accurate in the order of how the world was created -- it matches up with the evidence in the geologic column. I do not subscribe to a world wide cataclysmic 'Flood' -- though it was definitely a 'Great Flood' and changed the course of human history. You can read the explanation here http://www.dangoor.com/73page29.html better than I can type it. It doesn't mention it in the article but it is believe the "Rainbow" in the Mosaic account of the Flood is due to the turret cause by the water rushing out of the Bosphorus Channel -- which was much greater than Niagara Falls or that it would have also caused atmospheric disturbances that would have generated massive storms dropping even more rain from the sky!

That's all fine and dandy, but religion is also illogical and you just rambled on away from my topic. The country needs to seperate any refrences of religion in our money, our pledge and in our schools. It's not how it should be, honestly.

Also, you can't say every marriage is about families and begetting and raising children. There are times when people marry in hopes to help each other with the benefits that a married couple gets. Also, a same sex couple can raise children just as easy, because with all the kids in need of homes, they can adopt them. I don't like calling it Gay Marriage, though, as that isn't the right term. As they are trying to marry into a religion that doesn't allow them. They should have equal rights if they are partners though that a married couple should have.

Oh, I did mean to mention that I also agree on the the spending of public funds on things of religious nature -- but at the same time I don't think it is right to tell a teacher who is Christian that they cant have any things on their desk or person that is of Christian nature.

You are wrong about religion it is perfect logic, but you can of course believe anything that you want, even if you are wrong. There are certain truths that are objective -- that is they are true no mater what you choose to believe. Because you choose not to believe in God doesn't mean that He doesn't exist, your 'truth' is not true, just what you choose to believe.

Now, if you are talking about spending tax money for things that should not be spent, that would be 'benefits/entitlements" paid to 'gay partners' as if they were married. I personally find 'gay marriage' offensive and do not want my hard earned money going to support someone who has chosen that lifestyle.

A belief is not logic. It's as said, belief. You are going to against anything I say, because of your belief and believe in only one way.

You're going to agree to things that help what you believe in, of course. When exactly it would be a waste of money when churches already get enough money from their worshippers.

I've seen plenty of heterosexual couples get married so they could have these marraige benefits. Also, don't call it gay marriage, as it's not that I want achieved, but Gay Rights.

On your desk is fine, but when you have it on your walls, next to a pencil sharpner is when it's wrong. That's not just for you to look at when it's there, that is showing the entire classroom.

I hate to tell you this but you don't have a clue what 'logic' is. The fact is what you want to say is "I think that the whole idea of God is stupid, and anyone who 'believes' is uneducated". Do you know the difference between formal logic and material logic and how they relate to rhetoric? Have you read Metaphysics or Plato's dialogues? How about Kant, or Aquinas? All of these intellectuals have put forth solid formal logical arguments for the existence of 'God', a 'Supreme Being', an 'Ultimate Mover' etc....

Anselm of Canterbury (1033–1109) presented this priori argument:
1. God is the entity of which nothing greater can be thought.
2. It is greater to be necessary than not.
3. God must therefore be necessary.
4. Hence, God exists necessarily.
That IS a valid logic statement.
I find very often those who go around saying this is logical or that is illogical don't really have any idea what logic is. Logic comes from the Greek Logos meaning "hypothesis, thought, grounds for belief or action" or simply "word". St John's Gospel identifies Jesus as the incarnation of the Divine Logos, that is the Word of God.

Of course you are free to believe what ever you want to think logic is. I know what it is becuase I am from a family of lawyers and know and teach Greek, Latin, and Logic.

I know exactly what logic is. I don't have to go several years in a school (or at least say I did over the Internet) to know the basic fundamentals. Logic shows that you are pulling the quote you wrote like it's what I seriously think, when in reality it's by far that. I like it when people have a religion and don't think they are uneducated. I think they know what they want and they can reach for their goals because of their belief. It shows that you think you can pull up some random gibberish and think you know everything, because you're arguing with a High School student on a forum that honestly doesn't matter.

And even if I really want to have a religious debate with you, it wouldn't matter. You have shown that you are not open-minded to hear what other people believe and take it into consideration. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing is honestly done, but wasting your time.

I highly suggest going to YouTube and watching the GOOD* Atheist and Theist debates and actually try to take in consideration in what both parties are trying to say in their view points. If you can do that, then maybe I will go on with this conversation. Until then, it's you feeding me your beliefs and thoughts without even putting any real thought in what I think. Because if you did, you wouldn't of tried to put words in my mouth.

I think this debate is wonderful. I only want to say that in this debate (I always find humor in everthing).. So we have went from.... Have you read Metaphysics or Plato's dialogues? How about Kant, or Aquinas? All of these intellectuals have put forth solid formal logical arguments for the existence of 'God', a 'Supreme Being', an 'Ultimate Mover' etc.... To the today's world of.......I highly suggest going to YouTube and watching the GOOD* Atheist and Theist debates and actually try to take in consideration in what both parties are trying to say in their view points. If you can do that, then maybe I will go on with this conversation. Until then, it's you feeding me your beliefs and thoughts without even putting any real thought in what I think.


I just found it FUNNY!... Ya'll go ahead with your debate..................lol...lol

Well, this is not a debate becuase you really don't know how to and frankly don't care to learn. You are right I am not open minded, becuase I know that God exists it is not just something I 'believe' and I also know that homosexuality is a disordered orientation, and for some reason God has chosen this Cross for certain people and the take the easier path. Everyone has their Cross and we all carry them or we don't everyone chooses. I will fight and vote against any kind of Gay Rights legislation and I will only vote for candidates that believe that as well. As with abortion there no "common ground" on this and yes I am a brick wall -- as a Christian has to be, NO negotiations NO apologies.

I think this board is important becuase is helping some people here to build connections that may help move this county out if its current hole.

Sorry Rex there is not debate here, I wont come back to this post I have said all that I can.

It's just shows a constant struggle between someone's belief to their tolerance. It's fine to have your belief, but when you are not tolerant enough to accept someone else's you can't get anywhere, honestly.

What's your views on this Rex? I would rather talk to you other then Sbcorgi. He/She appreantly has no room to hold a real discussion unless it's on his view point.